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	<title>Comments on: 10 reasons why web log analyzers are better than JavaScript based analytics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/</link>
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		<title>By: Claudiu</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4923</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4923</guid>
		<description>Interesting post! I can think to at least 20 reasons for not switching to log analyzers exclusively. 

I&#039;ll give you just 4 which have huge impact on the data you get:
1. Caching will always be a problem as your servers will not be able to report pages loaded from computer or server caches
2. No way to track returning visitors. You need cookies for that and code to read them :)
3. No way to track user interaction with elements on your website
4. No way to do ecommerce tracking and incredibly difficult to funnel processes and get real actionable data.

From a programmer point of view it might be useful to use log files instead of javascript type tracking, but from a business view that would be not that friendly. As for Google knowing too much about your website... well, he already knows with or without having Google Analytics in place. Maybe if you stop it from crawling your website you take care of that issue, but we all know nobody wants that. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post! I can think to at least 20 reasons for not switching to log analyzers exclusively. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll give you just 4 which have huge impact on the data you get:<br />
1. Caching will always be a problem as your servers will not be able to report pages loaded from computer or server caches<br />
2. No way to track returning visitors. You need cookies for that and code to read them <img src='http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
3. No way to track user interaction with elements on your website<br />
4. No way to do ecommerce tracking and incredibly difficult to funnel processes and get real actionable data.</p>
<p>From a programmer point of view it might be useful to use log files instead of javascript type tracking, but from a business view that would be not that friendly. As for Google knowing too much about your website&#8230; well, he already knows with or without having Google Analytics in place. Maybe if you stop it from crawling your website you take care of that issue, but we all know nobody wants that. <img src='http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: vradmilovic</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4918</link>
		<dc:creator>vradmilovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4918</guid>
		<description>@MikeHerrera: Thank you for your comment. It was not an intention to &quot;step on toes&quot; with this post, but some comments look like it did happened. First paragraph states that not all reasons are applicable to every situation, but some of readers seem to miss it.

&gt; playing both positions to desperately expand a top-10 list.

I&#039;m talking about both positions because I actually do &quot;wear both hats&quot;, as most other small company owners do. As of &quot;desperation&quot;, it doesn&#039;t make much difference if there&#039;s 10, 9, 5 or 15 reasons...

&gt; Let&#039;s break this down:

Please don&#039;t assume that *we* have problem with changing code or building own tracking system. :) For this website, we have built a template engine that centralizes such modifications. But you also shouldn&#039;t assume that all webmasters do the same, that they have enough resource and/or knowledge to build own tracking system or to hire professionals to do certain tasks for them.

I agree: using both methods is the best approach (as I did noted in one of previous posts), but I think it&#039;s better to use log analyzer alone than JS solution alone.

@CraigB: Money-cost is similar for both methods, starting with $0 (there are also decent free/open source log analyzers available, and there are paid JS solutions).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MikeHerrera: Thank you for your comment. It was not an intention to &#8220;step on toes&#8221; with this post, but some comments look like it did happened. First paragraph states that not all reasons are applicable to every situation, but some of readers seem to miss it.</p>
<p>> playing both positions to desperately expand a top-10 list.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m talking about both positions because I actually do &#8220;wear both hats&#8221;, as most other small company owners do. As of &#8220;desperation&#8221;, it doesn&#8217;t make much difference if there&#8217;s 10, 9, 5 or 15 reasons&#8230;</p>
<p>> Let&#8217;s break this down:</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t assume that *we* have problem with changing code or building own tracking system. <img src='http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  For this website, we have built a template engine that centralizes such modifications. But you also shouldn&#8217;t assume that all webmasters do the same, that they have enough resource and/or knowledge to build own tracking system or to hire professionals to do certain tasks for them.</p>
<p>I agree: using both methods is the best approach (as I did noted in one of previous posts), but I think it&#8217;s better to use log analyzer alone than JS solution alone.</p>
<p>@CraigB: Money-cost is similar for both methods, starting with $0 (there are also decent free/open source log analyzers available, and there are paid JS solutions).</p>
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		<title>By: CraigB</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4917</link>
		<dc:creator>CraigB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4917</guid>
		<description>Has anyone mentioned the cost of the web log analysing products?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone mentioned the cost of the web log analysing products?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeHerrera</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4915</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeHerrera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4915</guid>
		<description>Your position doesn&#039;t state whether if you&#039;re approaching this from a diagnostic or a marketing-stance... in short, it feels as if you&#039;re playing both positions to desperately expand a top-10 list.

Honestly, the correct solution would be a combination of both log analysis and JavaScript tagging.


Let&#039;s break this down:

#1 -- This is quite lazy.  If you had foresight, it could also be auto generated within a view/template/rendering action.
#2 -- It sounds that you&#039;re really just not happy with Google&#039;s performance-- which can be resolved by running your own analysis service.  Yes, it&#039;s easier than you think.
#3 -- Again, lazy.  You&#039;re arguing that its idiot-proof.  Also, if you have the JavaScript-generated dataset, the administrator can run their own custom queries.
#4 -- I&#039;ll buy this.  Though, with some webserver configuration, you can force requests be checked to ensure that the referral domain is legitimate.
#5 -- This can be accomplished through JavaScript tagging as well.
#6 -- I&#039;ll buy this.
#7 -- I&#039;m sorry, but nothing is 100%.  Log analysis&#039; biggest enemy is the web-cache.  Only dynamic content is guaranteed to bust a caching strategy.  You are potentially under-reporting the actual metrics by relying on only one source.
#8 -- Maybe.  This is a very passive/reactive approach, though.  If security is that much of a concern, a specialist should be consulted.
#9 -- I&#039;ll buy this.
#10 -- Again, this is resolved by running your own analysis service.  Not all page-tagging solutions are Google operated.


I understand that you wrote a log analysis product, and would like to tout its benefits-- but there&#039;s no need to bend the truth to fit your agenda.  Be straight with your readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your position doesn&#8217;t state whether if you&#8217;re approaching this from a diagnostic or a marketing-stance&#8230; in short, it feels as if you&#8217;re playing both positions to desperately expand a top-10 list.</p>
<p>Honestly, the correct solution would be a combination of both log analysis and JavaScript tagging.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s break this down:</p>
<p>#1 &#8212; This is quite lazy.  If you had foresight, it could also be auto generated within a view/template/rendering action.<br />
#2 &#8212; It sounds that you&#8217;re really just not happy with Google&#8217;s performance&#8211; which can be resolved by running your own analysis service.  Yes, it&#8217;s easier than you think.<br />
#3 &#8212; Again, lazy.  You&#8217;re arguing that its idiot-proof.  Also, if you have the JavaScript-generated dataset, the administrator can run their own custom queries.<br />
#4 &#8212; I&#8217;ll buy this.  Though, with some webserver configuration, you can force requests be checked to ensure that the referral domain is legitimate.<br />
#5 &#8212; This can be accomplished through JavaScript tagging as well.<br />
#6 &#8212; I&#8217;ll buy this.<br />
#7 &#8212; I&#8217;m sorry, but nothing is 100%.  Log analysis&#8217; biggest enemy is the web-cache.  Only dynamic content is guaranteed to bust a caching strategy.  You are potentially under-reporting the actual metrics by relying on only one source.<br />
#8 &#8212; Maybe.  This is a very passive/reactive approach, though.  If security is that much of a concern, a specialist should be consulted.<br />
#9 &#8212; I&#8217;ll buy this.<br />
#10 &#8212; Again, this is resolved by running your own analysis service.  Not all page-tagging solutions are Google operated.</p>
<p>I understand that you wrote a log analysis product, and would like to tout its benefits&#8211; but there&#8217;s no need to bend the truth to fit your agenda.  Be straight with your readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4913</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4913</guid>
		<description>Most of your points are okay, but logging can be prohibitive on sites with high request rates.  Logging thousands of hits per second does not work without specialized logging infrastructure or high-bandwidth io channels and disk arrays, per server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of your points are okay, but logging can be prohibitive on sites with high request rates.  Logging thousands of hits per second does not work without specialized logging infrastructure or high-bandwidth io channels and disk arrays, per server.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris - freshteapot</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4912</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris - freshteapot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4912</guid>
		<description>@vradmilovic 

Alas I was thinking more the open source type and not those limited to windows or which you have to pay for that said...

I will think on about what would make a solid web 2.0. Not like that means much as really who am I. But it sounds good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@vradmilovic </p>
<p>Alas I was thinking more the open source type and not those limited to windows or which you have to pay for that said&#8230;</p>
<p>I will think on about what would make a solid web 2.0. Not like that means much as really who am I. But it sounds good.</p>
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		<title>By: vradmilovic</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4911</link>
		<dc:creator>vradmilovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4911</guid>
		<description>@Chris 

&gt; Its a shame the web log analysers havent been more maintained and updated for the web2.0 so to speak.

Some developers are still working. ;) If you have any ideas to share, feel free to use Support link at the top of this page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris </p>
<p>> Its a shame the web log analysers havent been more maintained and updated for the web2.0 so to speak.</p>
<p>Some developers are still working. <img src='http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  If you have any ideas to share, feel free to use Support link at the top of this page.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris - freshteapot</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4909</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris - freshteapot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4909</guid>
		<description>There is some irony in this post.

Firebug error due to ABP blocking google analytics.

_gat is not defined
[Break on this error] var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker(&quot;UA-1852659-1&quot;);

That said, irony aside a very good post, especially the part about what javascript can only report on, not really touched on as much but google does decide on its own algorithms what data traffic to allow and deny. Most are bad but at the same time, did you have a choice in the matter?

Its a shame the web log analysers havent been more maintained and updated for the web2.0 so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is some irony in this post.</p>
<p>Firebug error due to ABP blocking google analytics.</p>
<p>_gat is not defined<br />
[Break on this error] var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker(&#8220;UA-1852659-1&#8243;);</p>
<p>That said, irony aside a very good post, especially the part about what javascript can only report on, not really touched on as much but google does decide on its own algorithms what data traffic to allow and deny. Most are bad but at the same time, did you have a choice in the matter?</p>
<p>Its a shame the web log analysers havent been more maintained and updated for the web2.0 so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: vradmilovic</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4908</link>
		<dc:creator>vradmilovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4908</guid>
		<description>Thank you all for your comments.

@Jay: Yes, if you have AdSense on your website point 10 doesn&#039;t make sense.

@Greg: That&#039;s right, JS has its own advantages and that&#039;s why lot of people use both.

@Dave Ward: Of course, your mileage may vary, depending on preferences and website type (as we pointed out in the first paragraph).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for your comments.</p>
<p>@Jay: Yes, if you have AdSense on your website point 10 doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>@Greg: That&#8217;s right, JS has its own advantages and that&#8217;s why lot of people use both.</p>
<p>@Dave Ward: Of course, your mileage may vary, depending on preferences and website type (as we pointed out in the first paragraph).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/comment-page-1/#comment-4907</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.datalandsoftware.com/blog/2009/07/06/10-reasons-why-web-log-analyzers-are-better-than-javascript-based-analytics/#comment-4907</guid>
		<description>Personally, I *prefer* numbers that are limited to real people running real browsers who stayed on my page at least the couple seconds it takes to load tracking scripts.  Data on real, engaged users is more interesting to me (and my advertisers) than counting every GoogleBot hit to inflate my numbers.

If you&#039;re using something like Google Analytics, most of your users probably already have the script cached anyway.  It only has to be served once for any number of sites using its tracking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I *prefer* numbers that are limited to real people running real browsers who stayed on my page at least the couple seconds it takes to load tracking scripts.  Data on real, engaged users is more interesting to me (and my advertisers) than counting every GoogleBot hit to inflate my numbers.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re using something like Google Analytics, most of your users probably already have the script cached anyway.  It only has to be served once for any number of sites using its tracking.</p>
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